Tucker Carlson is talking about what happened behind closed doors in his very public break with President Trump over the war with Iran.He recounts an Oval Office meeting, before the conflict began, when Carlson says he warned Trump that he was allowing the U.S. to be led to war by Israel. “Yes, you’re right,” Carlson claims Trump admitted. “But in the end we all die anyway, so it doesn’t matter.” "And I was shocked by that, because it's nihilism,” he says. “That's the last thing any leader should display.”In response to a request for comment from NPR, the White House did not address that point specifically, instead sending along a social media post by the president that describes Carlson and others as “stupid people” who want Iran to have a nuclear weapon.In this episode of NPR’s Newsmakers, Carlson and host Steve Inskeep unpack the conservative commentator’s split with Trump and the MAGA movement. They also get into faith, money, political power, and why Carlson believes both major parties have failed Americans.Newsmakers is where you'll find NPR's biggest interviews. We post new episodes as soon as they're available -- any day of the week. Follow or subscribe on Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you watch or listen to podcasts to get new episodes as soon as possible. You can also find Newsmakers on the NPR app. Newsmakers relies on supporters who value independent journalism and a free press. Join NPR+ today to support our work and get perks from the podcasts you trust. Go to plus.npr.org.